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Saturday, September 3, 2011

Update- September 3rd, 2011

I do not think I will be able to complete the first chapter before school begins in a few days. A shame really, but I got caught up in certain matters that I had to take care of (and still am!). I am going to try and finish up the section with the hobbits conversing in the inn before Wednesday. Here's the new bit, including some corrections made to the previous sections (gratias Civi Europae!):



Cum Magister Bilbo Bursonus qui habitabat Bursae Imae nuntiavit se breviter centesimum et undecimum diem sui natalis convivio magnificentiae egregiae celebraturum esse, erat multa fama et commotio in Hobbitovico.

Bilbo erat perdives et insolitissimus, et annos sexaginta fuerat spectaculum Pagi, tempore quo notabiliter e conspectu aberat et insperatum rederat. Divitae quae is rettulerat itineribus suis iam factae erant fabulam Pagi, et id creditum est, neglegens illa quae senes dicant, populariter ab multo populi Pagi Collem Bursae Imae cuniculos fartos divitis habuisse. Et si illud erat non satis fama, erat quoque suus prorogatus vigor spectare. Tempus extendit, et videtur id multo non affecisse de Bilbone. Annis nonaginta aetatis similis erat quam fuerat annis quinquaginta aetatis. Annis nonaginta et novem aetatis inceperunt vocare eum conservatum bene; sed non immutatus verius verbum dictu esset. Erant aliqui qui sua caputa quasserunt et cogitaverunt hoc nimium esse; id videtur iniustum aliquem iuventutem sempiternam (specie) et quoque divitas infinitas (per famam) tenturum esse.

“Id solvendum erit!” dixerunt. “Id est non naturale, et molesta venient propter id!”

Sed illo tempore molesta non adhuc venerat; et quoniam Magister Bursonus suam pecuniam aliis benigne dedit, plurimi homines volebant condonare novitatem suam et divitas bonas suas propter hoc. Is suos propinquos interviseat (praeter Bursoni ex Sackvilla) habuit homines studiosos multos qui eum admirati sunt inter hobbites familiarium pauperium et levium. Sed is familiares nullos habuit, donec aliqui patruelium et consobrinorum invenium suorum inceperunt adolescere.

Veterrimus eorum, et carissimus Bilboni, erat adolescens Frodo Bursonus. Cum Bilbo erat nonaginta et novem anni aetatis is fecit Frodonem suum heredem, et is tulit eum ad Bursam Imam ad vivendum ibi; et propter hoc spes Bursonorum ex Sackvilla ad inritum redacti sunt tandem.

Accidit ut Bilbo et Frodo quoque nati erant die eodem, qui erat alter et vicesimus dies mensis Septembris. “Debes venire et habitare hic, Frodo mi puer,” Bilbo dixerat ei die uno, “et tum poterimus celebratare diem nostrorum natlium commode inter nos.” Tunc Frodo erat etiam tweenus, verbum quo hobbites vocaverunt aetates immaturas inter pueritiam aetate annorum viginti et aditum in puberitatem aetate annorum triginta tres.

Duodecim anni transierunt. Per annum omnem Bursoni convivia acerrima mixta ad tempus diei natalium suorum Bursae Imae celebraverat; sed nunc intellebatur aliquid eximius autumno illi advenienti excogitari. Bilbo anni centum et undecim aetatis futurus erat, CXI, numerus attractivior, et aetas honestissima hobbito (Tuccus Vetus ipse solum aetate annorum centum et triginta mortuus erat); et Frodo anni triginta et tres aetatis futurus erat, XXXIII, numerus sonticus: is erat dies quo is in pubertatem ingrediatur.

Rumores per Hobbitovicum et Iustaquam inceperunt spargere; et rumor de convivio advenienti Pagum totum perlustravit. Res gestae et indoles Magistri Bilbonis Bursoni rursum factae sunt primus res in sermone; et homines vetiores subito invenerunt multos recordiationes suos laete velle audire.

Nemo habuit auditores attentiores quam Vetus Hammus Gamsio, qui vocabatur Vetulum ab multis. Is mansit Fruticis Haderae, tabernae parvae in Via Iustaqua; et habuit auctoritatem aliquam cum dicebat, nam curaverat hortum Bursae Imae annos quadraginta, et adiuverat Veterem Cavivirum arte eadem ante. Sed quod is incepiebat fieri vetus et sui artus incipiebant fieri rigidi, opus extendebatur fere ab adolescentissimo filio, Same Gamsione. Et pater et filius usi sunt familiariter Bilbone et Frodone. Habitaverunt in Colle ipso, in Bursamisso Ordone numero tres signatis solummodo infra Bursam Imam.

“Suavissimus eloquentissimus generosus-hobbitus est Magister Bilbo, ut semper dixi,” Vetulus declaravit. Verrime: nam Bilbo dixit urbanissime ei, vocans eum ‘Magistrum Hamfastum’, et consultans eum semper de cultu holerum – de re cultus ‘stirpum’, maxime de patatis, Vetulus noscebatur ut primum auctorem ab omnibus in vicinia (et quoque ab ipso).

“Sed hic Frodo qui habitat secum?” Nocus Senex ex Iustaqua rogavit, “Bursonus est suus nomen, sed plus quam dimidia sui sanguinis est ex Brandicapris, dicitur. Nescio quare aliqui Bursonus ex Hobbitovico eat ad quaerendum uxorem longe in Capriterram, ubi homines sunt insolitissimi.”

“Et non est miraculum eos insolitos esse.” addidit Tatula Bipes (vicinus Vetuli), “si habitant in ripa prava Fluminis Brandivini, et sub Silvam Veterem, quae est locus obscurus malus, si dimidia fabularum sit vera.”

“Dicis vere, Tata!”dixit Vetulus. “Non est ut si Brandicapri ex Capriterra habitant in Silva Vetere; sed sunt genus insolitum, ut videtur. Conludunt ratibus in illo magno flumene - et illud non est naturale. Non est miraculum molesta propter id venisse, dico. Utcumque res ceciderit, Magister Frodo est tam lepidus quam velis offendere adolescenti hobbito. Est simillimus Magistro Bilboni, et non solum specie. Denique suus pater erat Bursonus. Decens respectabilis hobbitus erat Magister Drogo Bursonus; erat numquam multum narrare de eo, quoad mersitit."

“Mersitit?” dixit complures voces. Audiverant hoc et alios obscuriores rumores prius, quippe; sed hobbiti adamant historias de familis, et desiderabant audire ea rursum.

“Em, ita aiunt,” dixit Vetulus, “Ecce: Magister Drogo, is nupsit miseram Magistram Primulam Brandicaprum. Ea fuit prima consobrina nostri Magistri Bilbonis (sua mater fuit iuvenissima filiarum Veteris Tucci); et Magister Drogo fuit suus secundus consobrinus. Sic Magister Frodo est suus primus et secundus consobrinus, remotus semel utroque modo, sicut dicunt, si me sentitis. Et Magister Drogo habitabat in Brandivini Villa cum suo socero, sene Magistro Gorbadoco, sicut fecit saepe post suum matrimonium (amavit suos cibos, et senex Gorbadocus paravit convivium munificissimum); et is naviculatus est in Flumine Brandivino; et is ac uxor merseruntunt, et miser Magister Frodo tantum infans et omnia.”

“Ego audivi eos in aqua post cenam in lumine lunae ire,” dixit Nocus Senex, “et ponderem Drogonis esse quod ratem demersit.”

“Et ego audivi eum eam in aquam perculisse, et eum eam post eum traxisse,” dixit Rufus, molinarius Hobbitovici.

“Tu non debes credere omnia quae audis, Rufe.” dixit Vetulus, qui non amat multum molinarium. “Est non causa loqui de percellendo et trahendo. Rates sunt laboriosae illis qui sedent immoti et non pergunt quaerere molesta. Qualibet: erat hic Magister Frodo orbus et relictus, ut dicat, inter quos insolitos Capriterranos, educabatur utique in Brandivini Villa. Tam frequentissima quam leporarium, dicitur. Erant numquam minor quam ducenti propinqui seni Magistri Gorbadoci in loco. Magister Bilbo numquam egit beneficentius factum quam cum retulit puerum ad vivendum inter decentes homines.

“Sed ego suspicor id amarum offensum istis Bursonis ex Saccavilla esse. Ei cogitabant eos Bursam Imam adquireturos esse, cum is abscessit et cogitabatur eum mortum esse.Et tunc, is redit et abigit, et pergit vivere et vivere, et suus aspectus est numquam vetustior diem, di eum ament! Et subito is heredem exhibet et facit ut omnia documenta bene scribantur. Bursoni ex Saccavilla numquam non videbunt in Bursam Imam nunc, aut non speretur.”

9 comments:

  1. I'm not really an expert, but I do know that Latin word order does not follow English word order, and translating Tolkien "one word at a time" is going to produce dreadfully unidiomatic Latin. (For example, I would think that "erat" should come at the end of your first sentence.)

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    1. Gramatically, words can go anywhere in the sentence. Some people place the verb at the end of the sentence; others insert it where the English one would go. Personally, I translate it with the verb at the end unless it is a form of esse not used with a perfect, pluperfect, or future perfect passive verb. Then, I insert it where it would go in English; e.g. Mars is a god would translate as "Mars est deus." Some people also put a verb in an indirect statement directly before the implied word "that"; but I know many who simply put it at the end. It really depends on your style, and whether you are writing it for Latin students at a certain level or for any, including those who are still adjusting to removing the word order.

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    2. As said here above, there isn't a real rule for the word order in latin, but there are word orders that sound more latin than others. To know wher to put the words, the best way is to read some real latin literature or some very good fake. The order is free, but for that reason, order can give different nuances to the sentence.

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  2. Hey Celebrimbor

    The text that I learnt from, Keller and Russell's "Learn to Read Latin" taught me that the word order in Latin can come in any order it wants. Now it usually does come in neutral word order (putting the verb at the end). I have been rather inconsistent in this regard as you'll have noticed. I will eventually fix this and put the verbs at the end of sentences where they belong.

    -Mike

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  3. Hello, Mike!!! Awesome work! I have started Latin studies this year and of course, I love Tolkien, so I hope you can finish your project! What's the status of it right now? Are you going to read "Hobbitus Ille", that's going to be published next month (although the original release date in US was in September)?

    Cheers and best wishes!

    -César

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  4. Ave, Caesar (forgive me, I couldn't resist doing that)!

    The translation has been going slowly. I only recently got to the bottom of page three of FOTR. The reason for this is that my personal life has been quite hectic recently, as I got married back in August, moved in with my wife et cetera. I hope I can motivate myself to get to the end of the section with the Gaffer by the end of the week and post everything here, including fixed word order. I actually have my copy of Hobbitus Ille, and I'm sorry to say I'm rather dissapointed by it. I stumbled upon some very bad grammar as pointed out by members of the text kit forum, and Mr. Walker seems to have ignored Tolkien's notes completely on the translation of proper names in some cases (uch as leaving Hobbiton as Hobbiton and not translating it as "Vicus Hobbitorum" or "Hobbitovicus". Tolkien says that it should be translated as "town of Hobbits". The same goes for leaving Baggins alone and translating Bag End as "Bag-Finis": both names should have the element of the word for bag in the language your translating into. I made the same mistake early on in all these cases, as you can see in the early posts and commentary. Bag End is supposed to represent the bottom of a bag, or cul-de-sac, hence why I chose Bursa Ima and Bursonus in the end and followed the advice of some of my critics on here. Still, I am going to read it and do find elements of the translation to be very helpful. I'm glad you're enjoying the project and I will definitely try my best to get back into the swing of things and have something up by the end of the week.

    -Mike

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    1. Salve! I am Caecilia, and translate LOTR in my free time. I am to the bottom of page 6, right where it says, "...but not a single squib or cracker..." Do you know the translations for 'squib' or 'firecracker'?
      Btw, I like your translations. How did you come up with your naming convention - is it from Hobbitus Ille, another source, or translated yourself with a certain style?

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  5. Salve amicusi, keep it up, I can't wait for the whole thing to be done! :)

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  6. As a Catholic Priest and a fan of J.R.R. Tolkien, I can only wish you the best with this project! I, for one, would definitely buy the finished product!
    As for word order, although strictly speaking it does not matter, changing word order CAN change emphasis. This was true especially in the classical Latin era, but became less important as classical Latin passed into Ecclesiastical (Church) Latin. Today (official Church documents are still in Latin), word order is much less important than before. However, as the anonymous commentator (July 8, 2013) noted, there ARE orders that sound more Latin than others. In particular, simply translating word for word and keeping the translation in the English word order would definitely not be a good idea.
    All that being said, I do wish you all the best with this ambitious project. I certainly hope to see its completion in my own lifetime. :)
    If you are interested in seeing how another classic of English literature has been translated into Latin recently, you can find Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" (SVPERBIA ET ODIVM) here:
    http://ephemeris.alcuinus.net/superbia.php?id=224
    God bless.

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